Steven: Speaking of the subject of today, what changes have you seen happening in digital learning in China?
Dr. Seymour Papert: I think there are some very very good experimental projects, for example, I mentioned that Pro.He from BNU--Beijing Normal University. They are doing some very interesting experimental project where they have, in some schools, I think, there’re about 50 schools where they have a lot of computers and they are really letting the students spend a lot of time with their computers. So I was impressed with that. I didn’t expect to see such…
Steven: dramatic changes?
Dr. Seymour Papert: They’re relatively large-scaled, 50 schools, (although) it is not 50,000 schools. It is not just one classroom, that’s study it is quite a substantial size. That is just one example. My impression is that they are all quite a few people doing very interesting research projects, in order to do with digital education.
Steven: Are you encouraging students to spend more time online by using computers, I mean, surfing.
Dr. Seymour Papert: They don’t need to be encouraged. They’re all doing that.
Steven: Yeah, they are doing that on their own, but the problem is that some of parents have the concern. If children spend much more time surfing online, they might lose their literacy, they cannot write. That might be the problem.
Dr. Seymour Papert: Well, first of all, that is not necessarily true. You can’t generalize. It is true that you could waste your time surfing. But you could also do serious work surfing. So it depends on what they are doing.
Steven: And the age of the students.
Dr. Seymour Papert: I don’t think it depends on the ages. Like the experiment I mentioned that Pro. He is doing, that these are first and second grade students. They are just learning to write, why are they learning to write? Because they find interesting things to read on net. By surfing, of course they learn to read and as they learn to read, they also learn to write. That's an example. Surfing helps them encourage writing. They write better, they learn more than the other students. It's true that you can see the opposite also.
Steven: Yeah. Because I used to practice Chinese calligraphy, but now I can hardly pick it up because I use too much computer.
Dr. Seymour Papert: Well, but if you became really interested in playing the piano you would spend time playing. That’s the same thing. You think it is because of the computer or because you are already interested in something else.
Steven: And because there is too much fun online.
Dr. Seymour Papert: Well you find fun on the line, but if you were a musician, you would find fun with musical instruments, so or if you were a poet, you would find fun writing a poet. I don’t know if the computer is more fun. It’s more fun for the people who like that. But for the people like other things, that’s (not like that).
Steven: Let’s say computer is just tool by which we can, we can do our homework, download music and things like that.
Dr. Seymour Papert: Well, of course you can just use it as a tool, but some people are interested in how it works, and want to change it, and it’s not doesn’t have to be just a tool.
Steven: So what do you use the computers for in your class?
Dr. Seymour Papert: In my class? Well, that’s an interesting question. Of course, everybody uses the computer, if you would find some articles about somebody. Some of my classes are about using the computer. So they will do other things, maybe create some new things, software, or some use of computers. Because that’s what way they are studying.
Steven: So the students use the computer after class, right?
Dr. Seymour Papert: You mean while the class’s going on? Or maybe for taking notes. Yes.
